Economics

Re: Everyday Economics

Postby millionairemind » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:32 am

Just my 2 cts on the pre-conditions. Not qualified to teach anyone..:P just throwing the views out there... :D

1. Rice is a staple diet. Y do peasants eat more rice, cos' it is cheaper and filling. In Shanghai, if you go to restaurants and after ordering many dishes and if you still ask for a bowl of rice, the waitress looks at you funny.

2. Close substitute for rice is potato/corn. When I was living in Russia, I saw retirees with only $30/month in retirement pension cart off with loads of potatoes in the middle of winter, cos' that is the only thing they can afford on that pension. It is filling and it is cheap. However, Chinese being conditioned to eat rice for thousands of years, I don't think we can get them to go on potatoes diet. The same applies for Chinese peasants. When rice prices increases, they would reduce their purchase of meats and vegetables and eat more rice as it is more filling as their income are much lower than the city folks.

3. Remember back in May when the rice price was rising so quickly, almost every1 was hoarding rice. It got to be ridiculous when I saw the news reported on CNN that Asians were buying load bags of rice cos' they "heard on the news that there was a major shortage".

Just my small little 2 cts view ;)
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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby kennynah » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:36 pm

3. Remember back in May when the rice price was rising so quickly, almost every1 was hoarding rice. It got to be ridiculous when I saw the news reported on CNN that Asians were buying load bags of rice cos' they "heard on the news that there was a major shortage".

stockpiling is not necessarily due to the fear of rising price...it could be the fear of shortage that encourages purchasing in advance in and in quantity..

it is always very arguable as to whether an item is a Giffen good or not... but i recall my economics teacher telling us (and i sure hope he is correct) that a Giffen good exhibits this character...

the more expensive it is, the more desirable it is (even if one can ill afford it)....

this "desirability" is something that makes RICE not in the Giffen category...

in addition....i also have an issue with the preconidition that states the item must be inferior in substance...and if this is true, then lamborghinis, ferraris, porches, diamonds, etc will all not be classified a a Giffen good, but they are.
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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby millionairemind » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:32 pm

December 24, 2008, 12:15 pm
Why the Death of S.U.V.’s?
By Steven D. Levitt

The car companies can barely give away an S.U.V. these days. The latest evidence of this comes in the form of three more closings of factories making S.U.V.’s. According to that New York Times article, S.U.V. sales plunged by more than 40 percent this year, compared to a 16 percent decline for new vehicles overall.

Here is the puzzling thing. The apparent cause of death for S.U.V.’s was high gas prices. Doesn’t that mean that with low gas prices S.U.V. sales should come back to life?

I can think of a few reasons why that might not be the case:

1) Consumers think that the low current gas prices are temporary, and in general gas prices will be high in the future. Thus, they don’t want to get stuck with a vehicle that gets poor gas mileage. The question this raises is why consumers were so sure six months ago that gas prices were going to be high forever (which turned out to be wrong), but don’t believe now that gas prices will stay low.

2) The uncertainty of fluctuating gas prices takes the fun out of owning an S.U.V. Even if gas prices won’t be that high on average, it is so unpleasant to have an S.U.V. when gas prices are high that people don’t want to have them if gas prices are volatile. This explanation seems kind of dumb to me, but maybe it is possible.

3) When gas prices got high, it became uncool to own an S.U.V. Perhaps the process for going from cool to uncool is not easily reversible. Once something is uncool, it remains uncool for a long time, even when the forces that caused it to be uncool recede.

This might explain why the demand for pickup trucks remains strong, even as S.U.V.’s fade. Somehow the spike in gas prices didn’t make pickup trucks uncool in the same way as S.U.V.’s. Similarly, minivans have never been cool (or at least not for a long time); so if this explanation is right, minivan sales should stay strong.

My guess is that the third explanation is the most important of the three.
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby kennynah » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:52 pm

i think my this topic is more mathematics that economics...but nevertheless, let's ponder over this for a moment...

this is the scenario...

if you and I had just an extra $5K for investments in 2009 and if we aim at achieving a certain fixed annualized % return on this additional investment capital for the next 10 years...

let's look at how the target % return on capital will make a huge difference in the end.... here's the math...

$5K, 30% ROC, 10 years

end of 1st year (2009), $5K becomes 5k x 1.3 (60%) = $6.5k
end of 2nd year (2010), $8K becomes 8K x 1.3 (or 5K x 1.3 x 1.3) = $8.45K
...and so on so on...until we arrive at
end of 10th year (2018), $5K x 1.3 (power of 10) = ~$69K in your pocket book

$5K, 33% ROC, 10 years
end of 10 years, $5K becomes 5K x 1.33 (power of 10) = ~S$86.5K

Note that by raising the ROC from 30% to 33% (ie 10% increase), the actual dollar return is drastically increased. Restated, by increasing the target Rate of Return on Capital, we will exponentially increase the actual returns. The next example should drive home this point

$5K, 60% ROC, 10 years
end of 10 years, that original $5K capital, will become (5K x 1.6 <power of 10>) ~$550K

and if you press on for another 3 more years.....(don't blink now)
end of 13 years = $5K x 1.6 (power of 13) = ~$2.25 million

What important lesson can we draw from these examples above? We learn that choosing a higher % annualized returns AND the longer the investment time frame, yield much much more actual dollars...heck, then why not aim at annualized 80% return on capital over 13 years($5K, 13 years at 80% returns = $10.5 million)? i guess, it is all about our own investment psychology and abilities.

Another way of saying this.....the key variables involved above are :

1) % Rate of Return
2) Length of investment timeframe

Is the amount of initial capital outlay as important? No, it is not....surprised? Afterall, one would logically imagine, if my original amount was twice as large; ie $10K, that would make also exponentially increase my eventual actual returns, just as items 1) and 2) above would, right? Wrong !!! Let me show you...


$10K, 60% ROC, 10 years

end of 13th year, $10K x 1.6 (power of 10) = ~$4.5million in your pocket book

$4.5MM (using 10K outlay) vs $2.25MM (using 5K outlay), represents 2 folds. But that's it, just 2 folds. If the original outlay was $15K, the returns would be 3 folds, and so on... it's just pure mathematics...no magic here.


The Conclusion:


It is not the "size" of the initial capital outlay that affects as much the eventual size of leprechaun's pot of gold.... What counts, are just 2 incredibly simple variables; target % rate of return on capital and length of investment period...

and oh...HOW do we do this? that's some homework for the remaining days of 2008 (*wink)

(edited to add below)

soon after this post....i realized...WTF ! we all know this already....so, i just did an extra spray here...again ....hahahaha...
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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby Poles » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:29 pm

so instead of putting 50k in FD or mini bond......put in 10 eggs......all u need is 1 to hatch golden goose.....
else got 3 golden chick also not bad.
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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby kennynah » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:03 am

Now, let's take this mathematics one step further...

Assuming, we modestly target our annual % rate of return on capital at 30%. you'd think, that's quite a tall order, considering that S&P500 index historically made some 10-15% annual increase over a long time (well that's my impression from what i've read). Technically, if you are a one directional investor, namely a Long oriented investor, then naturally, to outperform S&P500 index, will be a challenge indeed.

Thankfully, it is NOT as difficult as it appears. BUT only if one learns to be flexible. To be flexible here means, having the ability to go both Long and Short AND also to profit in a range bound market. I'm afraid, there's really no other way to outperform the S&P500 index returns, unless and until this flexi-skill is learnt ! Think about it. If you can profit only by going Long and S&P500 tanks continuously, as it did for the last 12 months, how in the world can you make a profit? No brainer, right?

Let's get back to that 30% annualized return. To achieve this 30% annual return, all that is required is to make a very modest 2.2% profits every single month for 12 months. For the geeks, here's the math... 0.022 (to the power of 12) = 0.3 or 30%

2.2% of $5K is $110. To be precise, if you went Long 700 shares of Citibank at $7 (an investment requiring $4900) and exit at $7.16, that would make a profit of ~$110 (commissions excluded here). A mere 16cents upswing, is this impossible? Of cos not, in fact, it is quite common to see Citi making a 50 cents daily move on certain days.

Now suppose, we raise the monthly target return to 4% on a $5K capital outlay, which would mean making a monthly profit of ~ $200, we would effectively get a 60% annualized return on capital. Is it difficult to profit $200 in the initial month? Not too difficult, i think. It would be, if you only knew Long stock trading strategy.

Seriously, is making $110 or $200 or even $400 each month very difficult? Absolutely NOT ! Yet, if this is so easy, then, why aren't there millionaires everywhere?

Mathematics, comes easy to you and me, mostly. We can't say that of the concept of RISK.

And RISK, I say is the ultimate reason, many of us fail to achieve that 2.2% or 4% monthly returns consistently. To crystalize this point. Let's say, I lose $200 on the first month. To make up for this loss and still achieve my original 30% annual profit target, I will need to profit ~$440 (the 1st and 2nd months target of ~$220 + that $200 losses) by the end of the 2nd month. Recall, I only had to make $110 per month, now, due to an earlier loss, I now need to make $440, or 4 times the original target, in ONE month. Now, this is tough !!!

This is the reason why we MUST MUST and I repeat MUST cut our losses short and/or trade limited risks positions. We MUST know what we will be willing to lose even before we put on a trade. Every loss will impact the ability to arrive at that final intended % rate of return !!! Hence, if we allowed our trade to lose $1K, then it would literally take 9 months of $110/month profits, just to break even. Then, the entire year would be f**k off .....

We WILL inevitably lose on certain trades. If you don't believe this fact, you need to go back to the School of Reality. Ergo, the idea is to make an overall profit from a portfolio of trades constantly. This is the ONLY way to get ahead; there's no other way, amigo.

Achieving that 2.2%, 4% or even 8% monthly profit bottomline, is not as tough as we think. It only requires alot of planning, risks management, knowledge, skills and some lady luck. We can do this, only if we stop inhibiting ourselves psychologically.

But above all, we MUST work on our ability to manage RISK successfully. This remains the key to become Millionaires or even Billionaires in a realistic time frame...

Now, you know why we had to study mathematics in school.... 8-)

Thoughts are very welcome....especially, opposing ones...thanks.
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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby kennynah » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:16 am

poland wrote:so instead of putting 50k in FD or mini bond......put in 10 eggs......all u need is 1 to hatch golden goose.....
else got 3 golden chick also not bad.



technically, this is a valid argument 8-)
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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby millionairemind » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:52 am

K - what you are talking about is the eight wonder of the world - The Magic of Compounding.

Just a couple of cents of thoughts.

1. This works IF and its a BIG IF, you are making money and +ve returns every year.

For those reading this column. Take a hard look at your portfolio performance if you are a buy and hold investor from the start of this year. How much damage has been done to your portfolio? If you have lost 50%, you need to make 100% to just break even.... and how many ppe. you know make 100% return the next year, after losing 50% this year??

2. The investment time frame for compounding is EXTREMELY important.

2 bad years of 50% loss in a row, and you are down to 25% of your original capital. Now you have to triple your money JUST TO GET BACK TO STARTING LINE.

Even in a down year like this, it is possible to make 30% return on the LONG SIDE only...if your account size is NOT HUGE... but MUCH EASIER to make money on the short side 8-)
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby kennynah » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:40 am

MM : thanks... you said in a sentence what I had to do in paragraphs...

Yes, the science of mathematical compounding, can help anyone attain riches, only if we are very disciplined (something, i missed out mentioning earlier).

The road to Rome, always starts with ONE first step. That step while small, is crucial and necessary.

That 2.2% first month profit is essential in cementing our fate towards that final destination....which really does not end for I/T.... it is a life long endeavour and can be a really meaningful one, if taken seriously...

Good luck all !!!!
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Re: Everyday Economics

Postby Poles » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:21 pm

I think what MM pointed out is the reality.
But there is also some possibility to achieve what K mentioned.
Instead of have 30% return , we have to lower to maybe 10%. BUT we still work with 30% return target.
The additional 20% are made to compensate for downturn.
This can be proven mathematically BUT yet again the ? is , if 20% is good to offset losses.
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