Investment Myths Busted

Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby millionairemind » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:46 am

sidney wrote:Dear MM, in your opinion, is institutional support in certan shares gd or no gd for stocks i intend to hold till my grandchildren come out:)?

Since fund mgr can prop up share price by exiting and entry.. and thus the lemmings (certain retail investors jump trampolin) in and out also, thus the volaitity is actually thru speculation, not true valuation of the underlying biz fundamentals.

Is it better that the stock is left untouched and left market adjust the share price to true valuation in long run prespective?


Hi Sidney,

History is littered with shares that were once GREAT but now in the doldrums. Our STI keeps powering up just due to plain survivorship bias. Weaker companies are being weeded out of the index and replaced by stronger ones as time goes by.

Do a search on STI or S&P500 components in 1990 as compared to now and you will see what I mean.

No company has good fundamentals for a long time (like 50years) without change cos' Singapore mkt is just too small.. In the US, perhaps... companies like Coke and P&G.

It might be better to teach your kids how to invest like I am doing now than give them something which might not lasts...

Just a couple of weeks ago, CNBC reported that GM was back to the price it was 54 years ago!! Yes... you heard right, 54 years :D

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
mm
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

Disclaimer - The author may at times own some of the stocks mentioned in this forum. All discussions are NOT to be construed as buy/sell recommendations. Readers are advised to do their own research and analysis.
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby millionairemind » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:36 pm

Hi folks,

I am pretty much done debunking the investment myths with your help.

Thank you all for participating... it was a great learning experience...

Though we may not all agree, it is good that we trade ideas and I hope this thread has helped the newbies out there make more better informed decisions.

If you can think of any investment myths, do feel free to jumpstart this thread again so that we can all have a good discussion.

Cheers,
mm
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

Disclaimer - The author may at times own some of the stocks mentioned in this forum. All discussions are NOT to be construed as buy/sell recommendations. Readers are advised to do their own research and analysis.
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby sidney » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:55 pm

Dear MM, you are right abt the part on survivorship bias. I think this explains why STI can go up and up over time. Mediocre co will be drop off over time. Even co like singpost have to evo to branch out financial services to Abn and GE. I think whether a co can last depends on its core products or services~ are they meant to bulit to last in the first place without incurring significant of reinvestment to their operations in order to stay relevant for the next few years.

One example is i wouldn't know whether snail mails will still be around after a 100 years. But i think bus and trains will still be there, so long there isnt technology on teleportation (and hopefully no adverse conditions on surging crudes). For transport, if singapore mkt is too small, then comfort delgro will be a gd start to look into.
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby winston » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:58 am

Selling: The True Art of Investing by Alexander Green

So far this week - and so far this year - we've seen incredible volatility in the stock market.

Whenever a stock in our Trading Portfolio pulls back 25% from its closing high - or from our original entry point - we issue an alert advising members to sell the stock at market.

Why do we depend on these stops? Because they keep us from selling our stocks while they're in a major uptrend - and prevent small losses from becoming unacceptable losses.

It's true that many of these are great companies that will bounce back eventually. But "eventually" can be a long time. Our policy is not to argue with the market.

We buy based primarily on the near-term business prospects for our recommended companies. But we understand, too, that changes in fundamentals are immediately reflected in share prices. So that's where we base our sell decisions.

If we start making exceptions, our system will break down. And then - like so many investors - we'll simply be flying by the seat of our pants, hoping our stocks will continue to rise... or stop falling.

I know some members object, especially if they have faith in a company. But you can't bank on size and strength. Enron was the seventh-largest company in the United States.

You can't always depend on quality, either. At one time, WorldCom had the most impressive array of telecom assets on the planet.

Nor will longevity protect you. Montgomery Ward was profitable for 100 years before declaring bankruptcy.

However, if time passes and we recognize that we stopped out of a company due primarily to market volatility and not business fundamentals, we will often recommend the stock again.

But it's important to have a sell discipline and stick with it. Anyone can buy a stock. Knowing when to sell it is the true art of investing...

Institutional Disadvantages

In a study recently published in The Journal of Portfolio Management, Christophe Faugere, Hany A. Shawky and David M. Smith - finance professors at the State University of New York at Albany - researched the performance of money managers who oversee pension funds, endowments and high-net-worth accounts.

Because most institutions work under strict investment guidelines, these academics were able to analyze performance based on differing approaches to selling stocks.

The result? Institutional managers who fared best were those with restrictive rules that did not allow leeway for hanging on to stocks for emotional reasons. The managers who relied on "flexible" sell strategies did far worse.

That's unsurprising, really. When institutional investors see a stock moving against them, they are just as likely to rationalize as individual investors. And the culprit is always the same: pride, ego or emotion.

As Greg Forsythe, Director of the equity model development team at Charles Schwab, said recently, "Without any kind of sell strategy, emotions come into play. And emotions are almost always wrong."

We recognize that our timing will never be perfect. (No investment system devised will ever beat the uncanny accuracy of hindsight.)

But, in our view, market prices generally reflect the prospects for a business better than "expert opinions."

Using trailing stops protects both your profits and your principal. Not only by taking the emotion out of the investment process, but by basing your sell decisions on the realities of the market.

That can't help but make you a more successful investor.
It's all about "how much you made when you were right" & "how little you lost when you were wrong"
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby winston » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:07 am

A Wall Street Myth About To Be Shattered? by Gary Halbert

For decades, Wall Street has preached the buy-and-hold mantra (read: never get out of the market). They continue to warn that if you get out during the downtrends to minimize losses, you are likely to miss the uptrends. Therefore, you should stay fully invested at all times, take a long-term view, and be prepared to ride out some nasty bear markets and big losses along the way.

As the buy-and-hold strategy increasingly came under fire after the last couple of bear markets, Wall Street simply repackaged and renamed the buy-and-hold strategy and called it "asset allocation." Sounds much better, doesn't it? Asset allocation implies that you spread your investments over several asset classes (stocks, bonds, etc.). But the strategy is still the same: you buy and hold, and subject yourself to large losses whenever the asset classes hit a bear market.

Now, let's reasonably assume that millions of Baby Boomers are behind the curve in saving for their retirement, and that they need the stock market to boom over the next five years or longer to bail them out. Next, let's also assume that most of these Baby Boomers are also invested in the traditional buy-and-hold strategy that Wall Street has preached for years.

So what happens if the stock markets (and the bond markets for that matter) essentially go sideways, or only deliver single digit annual returns, over the next five years or longer? I think it is safe to say that there will be a revolt. Add in a recession, if we get one, and "revolt" could be putting it mildly! Baby Boomers could reject Wall Street's buy-and-hold mantra in a stampede.

Why? Because Baby Boomers no longer have 20-30 years to hold on as Wall Street suggests. Retirement for most will come much sooner, for many in the next 5-10 years. And if the stock markets continue to go sideways, or even marginally higher, over the next several years, Baby Boomers are going to become increasingly restless, to say the least.
Avoiding Big Losses Is The Key

My advice over the last 30 years has been consistent: avoid the big losses. In my view, you don't have the luxury of simply riding out bear markets and hoping you won't bail out near the bottom as so many investors do. The following "Breakeven Table" illustrates just how hard it is to come back from large losses.

Amount of Loss Incurred/ Return Required To Break Even/
10%/ 11.1%
15%/ 17.7%
20%/ 25.0%
25%/ 33.3%
30%/ 42.9%
35%/ 53.9%
40%/ 66.7%
45%/ 81.8%
50%/ 100.0%
60%/ 150.0%
70%/ 233.3%

I have consistently argued for "active management" strategies that can move you to cash (money market) or hedge long positions during bear markets and/or major downward market corrections, as a part of your overall portfolio.

The financial media decided some years ago to vilify active management strategies that can take you to cash from time to time as "market timing," and assured the investment public that market timing is impossible. Making matters worse, there were some market scandals in recent years that were deemed as ‘market timing' or ‘late trading,' when indeed they were nothing close or similar to traditional market timing, which simply seeks to take you out of the market and into the safety of cash, or hedge long positions, during major market downturns.

I have made a successful business out of promoting alternative investment strategies, including traditional market timing. We spend a lot of money each year seeking out active managers that have been successful in protecting clients from significant stock market downturns. Granted, there are many active money managers that have not been successful, but there are those who have admirable performance records.

The money managers I recommend in general:
1) have matched or exceeded stock market returns over time; but more importantly,
2) have limited losses during down market periods. This can be a WIN-WIN combination. Of course, past performance does not guarantee future results. The problem is, most investors don't know how to find these successful money managers.

1) As noted above, Wall Street has advocated for years that a buy-and-hold approach to your investments is the ONLY one that works over time; the stock market always goes up over time, right? But not if you seriously look at the chart above which shows multi-year periods when the stock market goes sideways or down.

2) Many investors have been conditioned to believe that their financial advisor/broker needs to be local, so you can sit down with him/her face to face every now and then. Fact: I have over one thousand clients all across America, and I have never met the vast majority of them. We do just fine over the phone.

3) Because many investors have been indoctrinated to Wall Street's mantra of buy-and-hold and asset allocation as the only way to go, they are therefore not open to active management strategies that just might get you out of the market during big downturns, or "alternative investments" that offer additional diversification beyond stocks and bonds.

4) Most investors are reluctant to change. Old habits are hard to break. We learn what we are taught, and it is hard to change, even if we need to in order to meet our financial goals. That will soon change, I predict, especially for Baby Boomers who are approaching retirement and are banking on a new bull market in stocks to bail them out.
It's all about "how much you made when you were right" & "how little you lost when you were wrong"
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby LenaHuat » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:47 am

Hi Winston
Excellent post :D . Juz want to add to the following:
Why? Because Baby Boomers no longer have 20-30 years to hold on as Wall Street suggests. Retirement for most will come much sooner, for many in the next 5-10 years. And if the stock markets continue to go sideways, or even marginally higher, over the next several years, Baby Boomers are going to become increasingly restless, to say the least.
Avoiding Big Losses Is The Key.


It's not only the baby boomers but ALL investors, no longer have the luxury of 'buy and hold'. Retirement (likely to be forced as the workplace has evolved into a 'emphasis on youth and tech-savy' hothouse) will come sooner for all. And so every gain in the markets must be protected. And the only ways to do this are :
(a) Avoid big losses firstly by right selection of tickers. Do homework and do homework.
(b) If TA/FA, whatever, points to a good entry point but the market proves me wrong, cut at 8-10% and run.
(c) Don't quarrel with the market. :lol: It's a tempest and so it's pointless to do so.
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby -dol- » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:49 am

An alternative investment bible to Graham & Dodd's Security Analysis (for Buy-and-holders) is Gerald Loeb's The Battle for Investment Survival (for skittish investors and market timers). It's good to be open to both approaches.

Coming off the depression when Loeb's book was published in 1935, it gain acceptance because many buy-and-hold investors were almost wiped out by this black swan event. Since then, 1973-74 and 2000-2003 have been good times to be less attached to the concept of buy-and-hold. Will 2007-? be another time to move more people to Loeb's camp?
It's not the bottom if you are not crying.

Disclaimer: This is not investment advice! Please do your own research and due diligence.
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby millionairemind » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:51 am

The Battle for Investment Survival is a classic!!! Read it at least 4x and each time I learn something new..

Most important takeaway - PROTECT YOUR CAPITAL AND PROFITS AT ALL COSTS :D
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

Disclaimer - The author may at times own some of the stocks mentioned in this forum. All discussions are NOT to be construed as buy/sell recommendations. Readers are advised to do their own research and analysis.
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby LenaHuat » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:12 am

OK, I've placed reservation at NLB for this Gerald Loeb book.
2day, I'm collecting the book "From Beirut to Jerusalem". By all of your standards, I think I'm really a village pumpkin bumping into stocks without arming myself with good books. Luckily now wookup oredi.

Thanks a million to all forumers........gonna run and enjoy soup liao. Hope 2nite, Wilmar will produce good results.
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Re: Investment Myths Busted

Postby millionairemind » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:38 pm

LenaHuat wrote: By all of your standards, I think I'm really a village pumpkin bumping into stocks without arming myself with good books. Luckily now wookup oredi.



Lena, if you are so knowledgeable = Village Bumpkin.. then I am :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Image

Hope you will enjoy the book The Battle for Investment Survival.. O'Neil counts Gerald Loeb as one of his "mentors" when he was just a young broker.
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

Disclaimer - The author may at times own some of the stocks mentioned in this forum. All discussions are NOT to be construed as buy/sell recommendations. Readers are advised to do their own research and analysis.
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