Warren Buffett 01 (May 08 - Jan 10)

Re: Warren Buffett

Postby mojo_ » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:14 pm

This is the alternative title to that marketwatch article: "If Warren Buffett is feeling greedy, maybe you should be fearful" :lol:

But take a look at this cnbc video by Becky Quick:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=893664508&play=1

Buffett rarely makes this type of call but apparently he had also in 1974, 1979 and 1999 (sell) - guess we're too young to remember.. :oops: :) For 74 and 99, he was early by some 3 to 6 months which is very decent for medium to long term investors. But guess this wouldn't work for traders whose perspective is as short as hours. Of course, remains to be seen for this call how long the duration before the mkt really takes off - days, weeks, months, years, decades...?
Not what but when.
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Re: Warren Buffett

Postby Musicwhiz » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:35 pm

Oh well, personally I wouldn't bother about when the market was going to turn up, since no one can predict it accurately anyway. It will only be apparent on hindsight anyhow.

I am just happy owning the companies I own now. :)
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Re: Warren Buffett

Postby kennynah » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:32 am

Musicwhiz wrote:Oh well, personally I wouldn't bother about when the market was going to turn up, since no one can predict it accurately anyway. It will only be apparent on hindsight anyhow.


this is a factual statement indeed...no one can predict what the future holds. we merely form an opinion and invest with a plan based on that opinion....

Musicwhiz wrote:I am just happy owning the companies I own now. :)


good for u then....and i hope they invite you for their annual dinner and dance too... 8-)
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Re: Warren Buffett

Postby LenaHuat » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:06 pm

"Grave" is the right word to describe the current situation. It doesn't hurt that WB goads long-term investors to plunge right into the market. Contrary to popular belief abt this man, he makes 'calls' IMHO.
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Why Warren Buffett is Right (and Why Nobody Cares)

Postby kanglc » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:16 pm

http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc081020.htm

October 20, 2008

Why Warren Buffett is Right (and Why Nobody Cares)

John P. Hussman, Ph.D.

The best way to begin this comment is to reiterate that U.S. stocks are now undervalued. I realize how unusual that might sound, given my persistent assertions during the past decade that stocks were strenuously overvalued (with a brief exception in 2003). Still, it is important to understand that a price decline of over 40% (and even more in some indices) completely changes the game. Last week, we also observed early indications of an improvement in the quality of market action, and an easing of the upward pressure on risk premiums.

...................

Why Warren Buffett is right, and why nobody cares

On Friday, Warren Buffett published an editorial in the New York Times titled “Buy American. I Am.” In that piece, Buffett noted “ I've been buying American stocks. This is my personal account I'm talking about, in which I previously owned nothing but United States government bonds. (This description leaves aside my Berkshire Hathaway holdings, which are all committed to philanthropy.) If prices keep looking attractive, my non-Berkshire net worth will soon be 100 percent in United States equities. Equities will almost certainly outperform cash over the next decade, probably by a substantial degree. Those investors who cling now to cash are betting they can efficiently time their move away from it later. In waiting for the comfort of good news, they are ignoring Wayne Gretzky's advice: ‘I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has been.'”

The most interesting thing about that op-ed piece wasn't Buffett's opinion about stock valuations. He's absolutely right, in my view. Rather, it was fascinating how quick many investors were to dismiss Buffett's advice, saying either that he didn't understand how bad the economy was going to get, that he preferred to “get in early,” or that he was “talking his book” and trying to bid up the value of his own investments.

Look. Buffett doesn't need the money. Virtually everything he has is now or will ultimately be committed to philanthropy. My impression is that Buffett honestly doesn't like to see investors making decisions that will damage their financial security over time. Also, a good part of his own self-concept centers on being a good allocator of capital. If he didn't like his investment positions, he wouldn't try to talk them up. He would liquidate them. If he thought he could postpone his purchases without a high probability of missed returns from waiting, he would have waited. My guess is that Buffett is very excited about the values he has been buying up, but doesn't get wrapped up in the day-to-day fluctuations that weaken the judgment of less disciplined investors.

The most expensive resource on Wall Street is short-term comfort. Investors who constantly seek comfort over the short-term ultimately give up a fortune over the long-term. In a market economy, the most reliable source of long-term gains is to provide scarce and useful resources to others when those resources are most in demand. At present, the most probable source of long-term returns is the willingness to provide liquidity (holding out willing bids at depressed prices in a panicked market), risk-bearing (taking on the market risk being liquidated by fearful or distressed sellers), and information (through the proper assessment of value). In my view, Buffett's willingness (and our own) to accept market risk here does all three.

Though Buffett doesn't easily show his hand regarding individual purchases or the details of his calculations, he has always been very clear about what drives his assessment of value: stocks should be valued as if you were purchasing the whole business. The way you (properly) value a business is to weigh the price against the long-term stream of cash flows that you expect that business to deliver into your hands over time.

The real object of interest is the long-term stream of cash flows that the company will deliver into the hands of shareholders over time (beware of companies that quietly dispose of their reported earnings through grants of stock and options to management and employees). Nearly all of the value of a stock is loaded into the “tail” of that stream – 5, 10, 20 years out and beyond. As Buffett notes “fears regarding the long-term prosperity of the nation's many sound companies make no sense. These businesses will indeed suffer earnings hiccups, as they always have. But most major companies will be setting new profit records 5, 10 and 20 years from now.”

The rush to dismiss Buffett's advice underscores the extreme level of bearishness among investors here. According to Investors Intelligence, just 22.4% of investment advisors are presently bullish. This matches the lowest extremes we've seen in decades. Extreme negativity of investors has generally been a useful contrary indicator of stock market prospects. That doesn't ensure that stocks have registered their final lows, but it contributes to a set of historically favorable conditions here.

At present, we observe not only undervaluation coupled with negative sentiment, but also extreme volatility that has historically accompanied important market troughs. Similar spikes in actual (e.g. 44-day) volatility were observed in July 1962, June 1970, October 1974, December 1982, December 1987, October 1998, and September 2002, all which were associated with important market lows.

The argument for gradually increasing our stock market exposure in the past couple of weeks is not that some flag has gone up that provides certainty about a bottom. Rather, our investment discipline is to gradually increase our investment exposure in proportion to the expected return/risk profile associated with prevailing conditions of valuation and market action. Scaling our positions in proportion to the market's expected return/risk profile, based on prevailing conditions (rather than trying to forecast market turns), is the essential practice.

Buffett notes, “Let me be clear on one point: I can't predict the short-term movements of the stock market. I haven't the faintest idea as to whether stocks will be higher or lower a month — or a year — from now. What is likely, however, is that the market will move higher, perhaps substantially so, well before either sentiment or the economy turns up. So if you wait for the robins, spring will be over.”

I have no idea whether the market will be higher or lower a month or a year from now either, but I think I differ from Buffett on the reasons for this. Buffett's reason is that he largely disregards short-term fluctuations, understanding that the market will improve before visible fundamentals do. My reason is that our market allocation is proportionate to the favorable expected return/risk profile of the prevailing Market Climate, and I have no way of knowing when that Climate will shift. When it does, we'll change our allocation. As I've said before, you don't have to forecast the future direction of the wind – you just need to regularly adjust the sails as the evidence changes.

Early measures of market action turn favorable

Notably, last week we observed a measurable reversal in risk premium pressures, coupled with a clear “breadth reversal” across a wide range of industries. As I've stated frequently over the years, the most important feature of market action is not the extent or duration of market movements, but their quality and uniformity. These measures can change very quickly, and long before “trend following” signals such as moving-average crossings occur. Last week, our most sensitive measures of market action clearly reversed to a favorable condition. These don't “whipsaw” very often because they come into consideration only when market action is unusually compressed. Presently, in addition to undervaluation and extreme sentiment, we already have the beginnings of favorable market action.

That said, we don't yet have enough evidence to simply remove our hedges. The prevailing evidence is consistent with a high expected return/risk profile for stocks, but the still “early” improvement in market action and the unusual nature of the current downturn suggest that we maintain something of a “stop loss” in the form of continued put option coverage, with strike prices within a few percent below current levels. That is the position that we have established here.

The recent panic is frequently described as the “worst” since the Great Depression, but this does not imply that the outlook is similar. One of the clearest contributors to the Depression was the failure of the monetary base to expand at anywhere near the demand for base money. At present, governments have made a concerted effort to put the world awash in base money.

Neither the crisis in financials or the current recession are surprising, but Depression talk is hyperbole. About the only surprise in recent weeks was that the broad recognition of a U.S. recession emerged at the same time as the peak of the financial crisis. That compressed what should have been two separate down-legs of a bear market into a single swan-dive. This downturn is certainly extreme, but the conditions that amplified the downward spiral in the Great Depression are largely absent here. Both at market peaks and at market troughs, investors allow their imaginations to run, almost always to their detriment.

I'll repeat what I wrote during the 2000-2002 bear market: at meaningful market lows, "the tenor of news reports has always been something to the effect that 'conditions are bad, expected to get worse, and there is no end in sight.' When the news reports are uncontroversial in reporting that the U.S. is in recession, when they suggest that there is worse news ahead, and when they indicate that nothing seems to be helping, that is when the market is likely to register its low."

....................
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Re: Warren Buffett

Postby mojo_ » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:01 pm

To assess the quality of Buffett's previous calls ('74-buy, '79-buy, '99-sell) take a look at this chart..

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Re: Warren Buffett

Postby millionairemind » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:37 am

WSJ to Warren Buffett: "Time to Get a New Crystal Ball"
Posted By:Alex Crippen
Topics:Derivatives | Investment Strategy | Stock Market | Warren Buffett
Companies:Berkshire Hathaway Inc.

Warren Buffett has gotten greedy too quickly while everyone else takes too long to become fearful, suggests the Wall Street Journal in today's "Heard on the Street" column.

Under the headline Even the Oracle Didn't Time It Perfectly, Peter Eavis writes that while Buffett has won "plaudits for some canny deals," there's also an "unnerving pattern emerging."

"Mr. Buffett looks to be committing his capital too early. On some bets, waiting might have gotten him better terms or more attractive entry prices."

"Time for the Oracle to get a new crystal ball," according to Eavis.

He acknowledges that Buffett doesn't try to time his investments too closely, and says he's not launching a "cheap gibe" based on the S&P's 7 percent decline since Buffett's 'I'm Buying U.S. Stocks' op-ed piece in the New York Times on October 17.

Instead, Eavis focuses on two bets Berkshire Hathaway has placed on derivatives.

In one, Berkshire received large payments to provide default protection for "certain junk-rated corporations" in North America. The company has already booked hundreds of millions of dollars in mark-to-market losses on its exposure to these credit default swaps. "Berkshire more than doubled it notional exposure on these CDS to $8.8 billion between the end of 2006 and the middle of this year."

Eavis predicts, "Given the deterioration in the credit markets, the third quarter hit on them could be large."

(Mark-to-market means the contracts are valued at what they would sell for in the current marketplace, even though Berkshire isn't selling them now. Those mark-to-market losses remain theoretical unless and until the contracts are actually sold or there's a default, but they still must be reported as losses in Berkshire's quarterly earnings reports.)

Berkshire's other growing derivatives bet involves very long-term options that will become profitable if four stock indexes around the world go higher over a period of years. Eavis notes that Berkshire added to its positions last year and into the first half of this year. Again, Buffett expects they'll make a lot of money eventually, but right now they're not much all that much.

Eavis argues that the trades suggest Buffett "was relatively comfortable about the prospects for U.S. corporations and global stocks at a time when some were predicting a bust."

While there may indeed be long-term profits, Eavis writes that Buffett has tied up money that could be have used for trades that would generate larger profits more quickly.

MORE DOUBTS ABOUT THE ORACLE

While the Journal is a high-profile skeptic, there's are other Buffett-doubters out there, especially when it comes to his public call to buy U.S. stocks now.

A common theme is that as a billionaire, Buffett can afford to put his money down now and wait for the profits, which could be years away. The rest of us have more pressing problems.

In the Times of London, Jennifer Hill argues that Buffett Is Wrong: The Market Madness Is Still Far From Over.

In Canada, the National Post's Diane Francis echoes the sentiment with Buffett Is Wrong: Avoid Stocks and Buffett Is Wrong: Part II.

On Seeking Alpha, Brian Keith Anderson lists 5 Reasons to Ignore Buffett and C.S. Jefferson asks "What If Warren Buffett Is Wrong About the Markets?"


There are also defenders, of course, including the often pessimistic Doug Kass, who made a profitable short-term bet against Berkshire Hathaway's stock price this year.

The key question, as it often is when talking about Warren Buffett and his famously long-term view of things, is whether an investor sees enough future pleasure to overcome pain in the present.

Buffett's investing record suggests we should be looking very carefully.
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

Disclaimer - The author may at times own some of the stocks mentioned in this forum. All discussions are NOT to be construed as buy/sell recommendations. Readers are advised to do their own research and analysis.
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Re: Warren Buffett

Postby Musicwhiz » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:08 pm

Nice article thanks MM, I had spotted that on WSJ and there was also another on CNBC too.

Good of me to have "suffered" so much pain in the last 2 months - really learnt a lot and understood valuations and the market a lot better now. I hope this makes me a better investor 3-5 years down the road. I really thank Mr. Market for the enlightening classes; though of course I'd rather he compensated me for some of the mental anguish. :lol: Kidding ! :P
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Re: Warren Buffett

Postby millionairemind » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:19 pm

MW - no worries I am sure you will come out fine.

I suffered thro' the dot.com bubble burst and it did make me a better investor...

Hang in there... it is always darkest before dawn.

Huat huat 2009 ar!!! :)
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

Disclaimer - The author may at times own some of the stocks mentioned in this forum. All discussions are NOT to be construed as buy/sell recommendations. Readers are advised to do their own research and analysis.
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Re: Warren Buffett

Postby Musicwhiz » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:28 pm

millionairemind wrote:MW - no worries I am sure you will come out fine.

I suffered thro' the dot.com bubble burst and it did make me a better investor...

Hang in there... it is always darkest before dawn.

Huat huat 2009 ar!!! :)

Thanks MM, you are indeed a veteran to have survived the dot.com slaughter. :D

Darkest before dawn - Peter Lynch says it's also darkest before it gets pitch black ! :lol: (Kidding :P )
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